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My gripe is about bank charges that I believe to be unfair, particularly as I believed my account to be in credit at the time.
I received a letter from my bank telling me that there were insufficient funds in my account for a £40 direct debit on the 24th August. They had therefore paid it on my behalf and would make a charge of £30 plus a monthly unauthorised overdraft fee of £28.
...should have been sufficient funds for this
I was more than a little confused by this because I believed my account should have been in credit at that time, so I decided to check my bank statement online to see for myself what the problem was.
The direct debit normally comes out of my account on the 26th of the month. Of course I can accept that on occasion it may come a day or two either side of the date set up, but what I cannot get to grips with is the fact that on the 24th of August £200 was credited to my account so there should have been sufficient funds for this direct debit.
I printed off a statement and sent a letter and a copy of the statement to the bank expecting an apology of sorts and for them to drop the charges. Well I can tell you I was more than a little disappointed by their response! Apparently you have to have sufficient funds in your account in the EARLY HOURS of that working day as this is when the transactions actually take place.
I know the pace of life is getting faster but is this not ridiculous? Surely the final result should be the TOTAL for that days transactions regardless of what time the money goes in or out?
By: Fed Up
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to genesis:
I do not lead an extravagant lifestyle with payments of things I cannot really afford.
I have a monthly phone contract which comes out of my bank account by DD.
Unfortunately, the clowns at Vodafone seem to think the 18th of the month is a "roundabout figure" which means they may try to take my money before I've been paid hence giving me an £8.00 charge for a failed transaction for insufficient funds.
Thanks, Barclays for taking money I cannot afford because the idiots who process my phone payments won't stick to a certain date so I can be sure the money's in there.
I use contract instead of PAYG because I need to make a lot of calls for jobs etc and with PAYG I was forever running out of credit and unable to return a missed call about potential work.
09/02/14 ahforfoulkessake
I do not lead an extravagant lifestyle with payments of things I cannot really afford.
I have a monthly phone contract which comes out of my bank account by DD.
Unfortunately, the clowns at Vodafone seem to think the 18th of the month is a "roundabout figure" which means they may try to take my money before I've been paid hence giving me an £8.00 charge for a failed transaction for insufficient funds.
Thanks, Barclays for taking money I cannot afford because the idiots who process my phone payments won't stick to a certain date so I can be sure the money's in there.
I use contract instead of PAYG because I need to make a lot of calls for jobs etc and with PAYG I was forever running out of credit and unable to return a missed call about potential work.
2
I will
thank you
you too
08/09/13 Genesis
thank you
you too
2
Erm . . . . yes Genesis . . . stay well!
07/09/13 miserablemoaninggit
6
miserablemoaninggit
My argument is sound - don't be naughty - then you will not be reprimanded
If you find the ability to realise this the world will be a much better and fairer place - in as much as - why should I feel guilty for your shortcomings when it comes to your financial affairs ?
You are the problem and yet you feel that everyone else should foot the bill
We the great majority who do not attract bank fees - because we take care with our day to day finances - do not want to see an end to free banking due to your mathematical inaptitude's.
As for assuming that people on tight, declining budgets are paying for SKY TV, smoking and drinking etc. i'm sorry to tell you that it is not an assumption - I see it every day.
As for conscience - yes I have one - but you obviously do not as you feel the world should pay for you and make sure you are okay - no matter the fallout. If anything - you are obviously attracting charges and have complained about this to your bank but been told you are liable to pay them and therefore you feel that typing up arguments on the unstable foundations of a few opinions you have developed from personal experience is the only way you can try to get the world to feel sorry for you.
You probably complain about the direction of the wind one day then the colour of the sky the next. both as futile as your main disquiet has evidenced itself by completing many circuits on the same circular path it takes.
The epitaph on my headstone will read 'I made a difference by making it fair for the law abiding majority'
Yours will probably be along the lines of 'anyone got a ten pound I could borrow ?'
In short:
Don't speed = no speeding fine
Don't go overdrawn = no bank charge
go figure.
06/09/13 Genesis
My argument is sound - don't be naughty - then you will not be reprimanded
If you find the ability to realise this the world will be a much better and fairer place - in as much as - why should I feel guilty for your shortcomings when it comes to your financial affairs ?
You are the problem and yet you feel that everyone else should foot the bill
We the great majority who do not attract bank fees - because we take care with our day to day finances - do not want to see an end to free banking due to your mathematical inaptitude's.
As for assuming that people on tight, declining budgets are paying for SKY TV, smoking and drinking etc. i'm sorry to tell you that it is not an assumption - I see it every day.
As for conscience - yes I have one - but you obviously do not as you feel the world should pay for you and make sure you are okay - no matter the fallout. If anything - you are obviously attracting charges and have complained about this to your bank but been told you are liable to pay them and therefore you feel that typing up arguments on the unstable foundations of a few opinions you have developed from personal experience is the only way you can try to get the world to feel sorry for you.
You probably complain about the direction of the wind one day then the colour of the sky the next. both as futile as your main disquiet has evidenced itself by completing many circuits on the same circular path it takes.
The epitaph on my headstone will read 'I made a difference by making it fair for the law abiding majority'
Yours will probably be along the lines of 'anyone got a ten pound I could borrow ?'
In short:
Don't speed = no speeding fine
Don't go overdrawn = no bank charge
go figure.
-2
Genesis,
Your last post amounts to no more than a repetition of your previous, weary, failed arguments, together with a simple refusal to answer many of the points raised by myself and others.
Also, the arrogance of assuming that people on tight, declining budgets are paying for SKY TV, smoking and drinking etc. In relation to this, you would be quite happy to condemn people to an 'existence', and no more, whilst you who contributes very little to society 'laughs all the way to the bank'.
One bright note though is that the vehemence of your posts suggests a guilty conscience. Your attempts to justify the past and present actions of the banking industry, and its vampiric attachment to society, whilst clearly failing is not without merit in that you feel the need to try.
The epitaph on your headstone will read 'He contributed absolutely nothing to his fellow human beings, but displayed great consistence in feeling guilty about it'. Perhaps that should be a stock epitaph used by all bankers, save for the Chief Executive. An alternative for the CEO may well be 'He contributed absolutely nothing, took all that he could and was incapable of any feeling of guilt.' In other words, he displayed great psychopathic tendencies, as I believe, Genesis, almost all senior bankers do. It is the one thing they have in common with bus drivers.
05/09/13 miserablemoaninggit
Your last post amounts to no more than a repetition of your previous, weary, failed arguments, together with a simple refusal to answer many of the points raised by myself and others.
Also, the arrogance of assuming that people on tight, declining budgets are paying for SKY TV, smoking and drinking etc. In relation to this, you would be quite happy to condemn people to an 'existence', and no more, whilst you who contributes very little to society 'laughs all the way to the bank'.
One bright note though is that the vehemence of your posts suggests a guilty conscience. Your attempts to justify the past and present actions of the banking industry, and its vampiric attachment to society, whilst clearly failing is not without merit in that you feel the need to try.
The epitaph on your headstone will read 'He contributed absolutely nothing to his fellow human beings, but displayed great consistence in feeling guilty about it'. Perhaps that should be a stock epitaph used by all bankers, save for the Chief Executive. An alternative for the CEO may well be 'He contributed absolutely nothing, took all that he could and was incapable of any feeling of guilt.' In other words, he displayed great psychopathic tendencies, as I believe, Genesis, almost all senior bankers do. It is the one thing they have in common with bus drivers.
4
miserablemoaninggit
the fact that you pay tax has no relation to your argument about bank service fees - so i cant see what you refer to yourself as a tax payer - i - pay tax too. its called a democracy.
if you feel ripped off that the banks have done something to you - its because YOU went overdrawn and took money that is NOT yours.
if you feel angry - stop going overdrawn.
justice - interesting point of view - you commit a wrong - you pay - that's justice - and that's what the bank does. again democracy.
I don't care what mood you are in or if you don't want to hear any defence of the banks, and by the way - it's not arrogance it's the simply facts of the matter. the truth sometimes touches a nerve and seems to have done so with you.
I do work for a bank but I am not discussing that bank I am responding to your generalisation based argument.
the profit margin of your bank is nothing to do with you - we are a private business not a mutual (if you prefer a mutual try a building society)
what salary the management team pay themselves is again none of your business.
the bank provides accounts for all and does not discriminate in favour or against people on low salaries/ Average salaries.
bank charges are set out clearly and always notified up to 4 weeks prior to leaving an account but at least 14 days.
your argument about banks looking at the fact that salaries are declining, or at least remaining stagnant and that prices are rising is no more than you again showing a clear lack of care with your finances and expecting everyone else to look after you.
yes - an increasing number of people are finding that they have no financial buffer - despite working harder and longer - to guard against unexpected events And, of course, unexpected events are part of life - so I would argue - stop for example the sky tv and the mobile phone and the gambling web sites and smoking and drinking and live accordingly.
Using credit cards, bank overdrafts and loans IS a simple matter of 'choice' for many people, and it is not an absolute necessity! those that use them are living on tomorrows money instead of budgeting with todays money.
you are an incompetent user of banking services and are the problem and banks don't want your business. switch bank account - go overdrawn - complain - and on and on.
and yes - I state again - if you are still unable to manage to avoid going overdrawn - and attracting service fees - I'm sorry - your fault - live with it.' - did you not do maths at school ?
on a final note - I must go out soon but I have no petrol - wonder if the petrol station will give me some petrol for free - I will pay it back next week - or maybe the bank will give me some money for no good reason.
disgraceful free loader!!
05/09/13 Genesis
the fact that you pay tax has no relation to your argument about bank service fees - so i cant see what you refer to yourself as a tax payer - i - pay tax too. its called a democracy.
if you feel ripped off that the banks have done something to you - its because YOU went overdrawn and took money that is NOT yours.
if you feel angry - stop going overdrawn.
justice - interesting point of view - you commit a wrong - you pay - that's justice - and that's what the bank does. again democracy.
I don't care what mood you are in or if you don't want to hear any defence of the banks, and by the way - it's not arrogance it's the simply facts of the matter. the truth sometimes touches a nerve and seems to have done so with you.
I do work for a bank but I am not discussing that bank I am responding to your generalisation based argument.
the profit margin of your bank is nothing to do with you - we are a private business not a mutual (if you prefer a mutual try a building society)
what salary the management team pay themselves is again none of your business.
the bank provides accounts for all and does not discriminate in favour or against people on low salaries/ Average salaries.
bank charges are set out clearly and always notified up to 4 weeks prior to leaving an account but at least 14 days.
your argument about banks looking at the fact that salaries are declining, or at least remaining stagnant and that prices are rising is no more than you again showing a clear lack of care with your finances and expecting everyone else to look after you.
yes - an increasing number of people are finding that they have no financial buffer - despite working harder and longer - to guard against unexpected events And, of course, unexpected events are part of life - so I would argue - stop for example the sky tv and the mobile phone and the gambling web sites and smoking and drinking and live accordingly.
Using credit cards, bank overdrafts and loans IS a simple matter of 'choice' for many people, and it is not an absolute necessity! those that use them are living on tomorrows money instead of budgeting with todays money.
you are an incompetent user of banking services and are the problem and banks don't want your business. switch bank account - go overdrawn - complain - and on and on.
and yes - I state again - if you are still unable to manage to avoid going overdrawn - and attracting service fees - I'm sorry - your fault - live with it.' - did you not do maths at school ?
on a final note - I must go out soon but I have no petrol - wonder if the petrol station will give me some petrol for free - I will pay it back next week - or maybe the bank will give me some money for no good reason.
disgraceful free loader!!
-2
Boblet
The practice you are describing sounds immoral to me; it's hard enough these days to run a small business without having to worry that your bank is deliberately trying to cheat you.
I'm glad you stood up for yourself and got your money back.
05/09/13 Petra
The practice you are describing sounds immoral to me; it's hard enough these days to run a small business without having to worry that your bank is deliberately trying to cheat you.
I'm glad you stood up for yourself and got your money back.
4
Genesis, you state
'you are going to foot the bill and all the costs of my overspend and I am not going to tell you about this until after the event and I am not going to give you any indication of when you are going to get your money back
how do you feel ?
ripped off, yes ?'
Yes, we taxpayers do feel ripped off that the banks have done this to us. We feel angry. We want justice and retribution. We are not in the mood to hear any defence of the banks, and anyone that has the arrogance to come onto a site like this to do so is just that - supremely arrogant!
If you work for a bank that did not need a bail out, then keep your arguments precisely to that bank, and not banks generally as you have done so. What is the profit margin of your bank? What salary does the management team pay themselves?
Does your bank provide accounts to people on low salaries? Average salaries? If so, does its charges take account of the fact that such salaries are declining, or at least remaining stagnant? That prices are rising? That an increasing number of people are finding that they have no financial buffer - despite working harder and longer - to guard against unexpected events? And, of course, unexpected events are part of life? Using credit cards, bank overdrafts and loans is not a simple matter of 'choice' for many people, it is an absolute necessity! For many, it is the final stage before they take the trip to the Food Banks - the only branch of 'banking' that has any moral compass.
Banks have been absolutely fundamental in creating the financial crisis - they are both the predators on the plain and the vultures that hang around to pick clean the carcasses afterwards.
You finally state 'if you are still unable to manage to avoid going overdrawn - and attracting service fees - i'm sorry - your fault - live with it.' Disgusting!
05/09/13 miserablemoaninggit
'you are going to foot the bill and all the costs of my overspend and I am not going to tell you about this until after the event and I am not going to give you any indication of when you are going to get your money back
how do you feel ?
ripped off, yes ?'
Yes, we taxpayers do feel ripped off that the banks have done this to us. We feel angry. We want justice and retribution. We are not in the mood to hear any defence of the banks, and anyone that has the arrogance to come onto a site like this to do so is just that - supremely arrogant!
If you work for a bank that did not need a bail out, then keep your arguments precisely to that bank, and not banks generally as you have done so. What is the profit margin of your bank? What salary does the management team pay themselves?
Does your bank provide accounts to people on low salaries? Average salaries? If so, does its charges take account of the fact that such salaries are declining, or at least remaining stagnant? That prices are rising? That an increasing number of people are finding that they have no financial buffer - despite working harder and longer - to guard against unexpected events? And, of course, unexpected events are part of life? Using credit cards, bank overdrafts and loans is not a simple matter of 'choice' for many people, it is an absolute necessity! For many, it is the final stage before they take the trip to the Food Banks - the only branch of 'banking' that has any moral compass.
Banks have been absolutely fundamental in creating the financial crisis - they are both the predators on the plain and the vultures that hang around to pick clean the carcasses afterwards.
You finally state 'if you are still unable to manage to avoid going overdrawn - and attracting service fees - i'm sorry - your fault - live with it.' Disgusting!
4
miserablemoaninggit - and others
sorry if you feel my comments sickening - its just the truth isn't always candy coated
got a situation for you.
i'm off to spend some money - but I have not got enough - but I will spend it anyway - after all I 'need' what I am going to spend the money on.
you are going to foot the bill and all the costs of my overspend and I am not going to tell you about this until after the event and I am not going to give you any indication of when you are going to get your money back
how do you feel ?
ripped off, yes ?
so why do you expect a bank to allow you to do this with no penalty ?
you seem to want a free ride and are most likely the kind of individual who will spend time upsetting bank staff with over complicated arguments mixed with antagonistic opinions and a nice measure of attitude.
I hear your argument re tax payers funding banks - and I agree with that point - but must alert you to the fact that not all the banks had bail outs and I work for one that did not need or ask for a penny.
you move your argument to mortgages and other borrowing. well if you don't like paying interest - save up first - then spend your own cash........the bank might give you some interest as well (free by the way) apart from tax - and I suppose you will be against tax too!
I would love to see an account that can never go overdrawn - not even a penny - I would love to be the one that explained that to you - and also charges for the services used - e.g. 50p to draw cash at cash machine - or £1 for a counter transaction. in effect no bank charges (hooray I hear you cry) just charges for the service you use - sounds fair to me - those that use the service - pay for the service - those that don't - don't.
if you are still unable to manage to avoid going overdrawn - and attracting service fees - i'm sorry - your fault - live with it.
05/09/13 Genesis
sorry if you feel my comments sickening - its just the truth isn't always candy coated
got a situation for you.
i'm off to spend some money - but I have not got enough - but I will spend it anyway - after all I 'need' what I am going to spend the money on.
you are going to foot the bill and all the costs of my overspend and I am not going to tell you about this until after the event and I am not going to give you any indication of when you are going to get your money back
how do you feel ?
ripped off, yes ?
so why do you expect a bank to allow you to do this with no penalty ?
you seem to want a free ride and are most likely the kind of individual who will spend time upsetting bank staff with over complicated arguments mixed with antagonistic opinions and a nice measure of attitude.
I hear your argument re tax payers funding banks - and I agree with that point - but must alert you to the fact that not all the banks had bail outs and I work for one that did not need or ask for a penny.
you move your argument to mortgages and other borrowing. well if you don't like paying interest - save up first - then spend your own cash........the bank might give you some interest as well (free by the way) apart from tax - and I suppose you will be against tax too!
I would love to see an account that can never go overdrawn - not even a penny - I would love to be the one that explained that to you - and also charges for the services used - e.g. 50p to draw cash at cash machine - or £1 for a counter transaction. in effect no bank charges (hooray I hear you cry) just charges for the service you use - sounds fair to me - those that use the service - pay for the service - those that don't - don't.
if you are still unable to manage to avoid going overdrawn - and attracting service fees - i'm sorry - your fault - live with it.
-6
As with a lot of so called professionals, Genesis has a tendency to put a spin on things. I rarely incur bank charges, however when I was in business it was a constant worry. Computers are used on accounts to highlight certain conditions. I realised that I was approaching my agreed OD limit so I put my spending into neutral. The bank by simple manipulation of dates, just a day or two early for paying certain things, bringing slightly increased bank charges forward, again just by a few hours, created conditions that forced my account into the red. This situation then triggered costly letters that drove the account even deeper into the red. It is a con, all who work in banks know of this despicable practice, using computers to manipulate accounts into the red. I got my money back by the way, the evidence was in the statements. For curiosity just check the dates for those recurring items. I guarantee there will be fluctuations. Then Genesis will spin & spin again.
04/09/13 boblet
3
Very well said mmg, I think that "anon" is not aware that billions of taxpayers money was given to the banks that anon thinks so highly of and that a good deal of that was from people on lower wages that anon thinks so lowly of.
03/09/13 Wilhelm
5
anon, why bother to post that comment. Ineffectual, moribund, irrelevant nonsense. Essentially, you blame people who do not earn a living wage for not understanding the world of finance. Rubbish!
I suspect that many low wage earners understand finance far better than you or I. They understand how to juggle finances to the extent that they know how every single penny is spent and, indeed, appreciate every single penny. They probably know exactly the cost of a loaf of bread, or a pint of milk, or the price of a new pair of school trousers for their child. They probably will know exactly the amount of money they will spend on birthday treats and Christmas.
anon, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself labelling such people as 'The problem' in relation to the disgusting, morally bankrupt banks. I'm surprised that people in this country are not out on the streets, "kicking-off" and bringing the 'world of finance' back to reality.
03/09/13 miserablemoaninggit
I suspect that many low wage earners understand finance far better than you or I. They understand how to juggle finances to the extent that they know how every single penny is spent and, indeed, appreciate every single penny. They probably know exactly the cost of a loaf of bread, or a pint of milk, or the price of a new pair of school trousers for their child. They probably will know exactly the amount of money they will spend on birthday treats and Christmas.
anon, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself labelling such people as 'The problem' in relation to the disgusting, morally bankrupt banks. I'm surprised that people in this country are not out on the streets, "kicking-off" and bringing the 'world of finance' back to reality.
6
The problem lies with bank users who are at the lower-end of the economic spectrum, ie low earners and minimum wagees, even the unemployeds use bank accounts! These people are used to living a 'hand-to-mouth' existence, and do not understand the world of finance.
03/09/13 anon
-2
What a laughable post Genesis. Bank charges are way too high because more often than not, they do not relate to the low salaries that many people are earning, or the actual administration cost of what many of the charges relate to.
Banks don't give anything free. The debit card earns the bank money; to include the fact that phoning the bank is a free service is ridiculous - why should customers expect to pay a premium rate? Furthermore, the internet banking greatly reduces the costs to the banks and the 'free online assistance' is simply part of what the service should be.
You label as 'free' what is essentially the different facets of the business of banking from the perspective of the customer.
Mortgages are not free, often including excessive charges - the old 'administration' charge, or 'set-up charge', amongst others. Credit card interests rates from banks are usually hovering around 16 to 19% -far above the Bank of England rate of 0.5%. The bank earns money for every transaction made on the card. Use the card abroad? Well, the bank is earning even more and 'laughing all the way to . . . .the bank'! Savings rates are essentially zero, including cash ISA's that banks make a profit on but pay essentially nothing. 'Free fraud protection'? What is that all about? It's in the interests of the bank to provide such protection because the Law demands it.
What about the taxpayers bail-out of the banks? The massive amounts of money that have gone to bail-out failing banks, run by failing managers? What about the rip-off practices that include PPI? The latest being the credit card fraud protection insurance that was mis-sold and essentially another rip-off.
If you don't have a decent salary, or no salary at all? Well, "go to Wonga", the banks tell you and pay even more rip-off interest rates of 500% plus. "We don't give a damn!" say the banks.
Get off your high horse Genesis! You work for a business that has been robbing customers, and now the tax payer, for decades!
Oh, last point. You state 'if you cant do that - then don't have a bank account and deal with cash and when you run out - its your fault.' Erm . . . . a lesson that might well be learned by banks. They ran out of cash, they proclaimed it was not really their fault, the taxpayer bailed them out, the bankers continue with their fat cat salaries and bonus payments.
And then you say 'don't ring the bank and start shouting'! That's the least we should do, we should be out on the streets and shouting and screaming at the top of our voices.
Genesis - your posts are sickening!
03/09/13 miserablemoaninggit
Banks don't give anything free. The debit card earns the bank money; to include the fact that phoning the bank is a free service is ridiculous - why should customers expect to pay a premium rate? Furthermore, the internet banking greatly reduces the costs to the banks and the 'free online assistance' is simply part of what the service should be.
You label as 'free' what is essentially the different facets of the business of banking from the perspective of the customer.
Mortgages are not free, often including excessive charges - the old 'administration' charge, or 'set-up charge', amongst others. Credit card interests rates from banks are usually hovering around 16 to 19% -far above the Bank of England rate of 0.5%. The bank earns money for every transaction made on the card. Use the card abroad? Well, the bank is earning even more and 'laughing all the way to . . . .the bank'! Savings rates are essentially zero, including cash ISA's that banks make a profit on but pay essentially nothing. 'Free fraud protection'? What is that all about? It's in the interests of the bank to provide such protection because the Law demands it.
What about the taxpayers bail-out of the banks? The massive amounts of money that have gone to bail-out failing banks, run by failing managers? What about the rip-off practices that include PPI? The latest being the credit card fraud protection insurance that was mis-sold and essentially another rip-off.
If you don't have a decent salary, or no salary at all? Well, "go to Wonga", the banks tell you and pay even more rip-off interest rates of 500% plus. "We don't give a damn!" say the banks.
Get off your high horse Genesis! You work for a business that has been robbing customers, and now the tax payer, for decades!
Oh, last point. You state 'if you cant do that - then don't have a bank account and deal with cash and when you run out - its your fault.' Erm . . . . a lesson that might well be learned by banks. They ran out of cash, they proclaimed it was not really their fault, the taxpayer bailed them out, the bankers continue with their fat cat salaries and bonus payments.
And then you say 'don't ring the bank and start shouting'! That's the least we should do, we should be out on the streets and shouting and screaming at the top of our voices.
Genesis - your posts are sickening!
8
Genesis
simple solution
1. pay by bill payment - assuming Vodafone accept this
or
2. shout at Vodafone and get your bank charges back from them - after all they are the week link in the chain