I'm not really stealing my neighbour's Wi-Fi, am I?
Using your neighbour's broadband or using someone's unsecured Wi-Fi network to connect to the Internet. This is something that has been in the news quite a bit recently and there have even been a few cases where individuals were arrested for “borrowing” someone else's Wi-Fi connection.
In my opinion however, logging on to someone's Wi-Fi network is NOT theft and how can it be seen as theft when the individual concerned in most cases doesn't even know and doesn't experience any actual loss? They didn't miss that tiny bit of bandwidth and if they did, why on earth did they elect to SHARE their Internet connection with the entire street?
Many people have tried to argue that it's simply a case of taking something that doesn't belong to you and to me that is absolute nonsense! If you're neighbour is in his bedroom listening to music with the window open and you are in the garden enjoying that same music, does that make you a thief? I think not. At the very least using someone's Wi-Fi network may be considered a grey area because you are not stealing tangible property and are not actually trespassing in order to take something. I just thought I would throw that one in there for those who would argue that it's the same as going into someone's living room and watching their TV!
I don't advocate abusing someone's network by downloading gigabytes of music and films, or even worse something more sinister. But quickly checking one's email on the move, what's the harm in that? In fact recently I had to borrow a Wi-Fi connection a few months back for a few days when I moved house. You know how long it can take some ISP's to provide you with broadband, well this freely available connection enabled me to keep my business flowing smoothly and I'm pretty sure I wasn't a burden to the network concerned.
Good news on the horizon it seems. I recently came across something called BT Fon, which basically allows BT Total broadband customers to share part of their home connection in exchange for free access to this new wireless network community. Those of us who are a little more security conscious needn't worry as the public portion of the network is completely separate from the owner's broadband connection. It's a fantastic idea I think and one that I hope takes off and is picked up by other providers.
Comments from visitors
If I PAY for a service and somebody uses this service and so deprives me of it in part or all then they have stolen money from me because they have no intent to pay for this service.
I have a secured Wifi which has been hacked not once but twice, by the same person. They are targetting my wifi specifically (its a neighbour) as its likely the best signal. I know who it is and they have no intent to pay, ask or anything else which may be considered polite.
So for anybody who thinks it's harmless, or that I should put up with it, I suggest you imagine yourself in the position where its you who gets the bill for going over your broadband limit or who can't access it properly because somebody decides they are going to steal your wifi.
I have a secured Wifi which has been hacked not once but twice, by the same person. They are targetting my wifi specifically (its a neighbour) as its likely the best signal. I know who it is and they have no intent to pay, ask or anything else which may be considered polite.
So for anybody who thinks it's harmless, or that I should put up with it, I suggest you imagine yourself in the position where its you who gets the bill for going over your broadband limit or who can't access it properly because somebody decides they are going to steal your wifi.
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It's like sticking an Ethernet cable through the wall, it's there own fault, why would you do that? You wouldn't, the wall's there for a reason, so why -virtually- do the same thing but with wifi. The Encryption/Security is the wall in front of the Ethernet cable. IT'S THE SAME PRINCIPLE!
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I see it as if someone DOESN'T secure their network, It's there own fault and the easy way to stop someone using your internet and your not happy with it is to simply put security on it. If you have already got security see who's nicking your Wi-Fi and block their mac address or Set another password. If you are using BT Broadband or FON then you are SECURELY sharing you network to other BT customers, It is in the T&Cs.
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My mate is on a canal boat he just bumbles along using his lap top, lots of boaters do it. I do not know where you live Robert but if it is near a canal, Brian has no problem with ducks.
+6
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Cynical Boblet - 3-Apr-11 15:03
You wouldn’t be able to do that outside my house, mine is locked down tighter than a duck’s @arse.
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It doesn't really matter whether you think it's theft or not, it is.
What would happen if I parked outside your house, stole your bandwidth, and downloaded illegal material. The trace would go back to you, and you would be help responsible.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/30/wi_fi_arrest/
What would happen if I parked outside your house, stole your bandwidth, and downloaded illegal material. The trace would go back to you, and you would be help responsible.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/30/wi_fi_arrest/
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Nope sorry americancritic. If I amble past your house with my WiFi enabled android phone and you're router assigns me an IP address that's a gift right? By giving me that IP address it's saying "there you go buddy, have a ball!" and giving me free access to the Internet. So, it's not stealing, it's just gratefully receiving a gift.
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I believe the writer of the above is out of touch in many ways, If I am paying to have a service like broadband or dsl or any other service and you tap into what I am paying for then you are in fact a thief.. If you are using the internet by going through some else's paid for service then I call you a thief.
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americancritic - 3-Apr-11 06:24
Hello everyone.
I have a BT HomeHub 2.0 and installed it using the instructions. Nowhere in the instructions it said I needed to secure it and I could not find any useful information on the internet. Tried to call BT but gave up after 15min of waiting in the queue. Most of the time there are technical difficulties and I don´t get to use the internet very often at all.
Now (October 2010) I received an email from BT telling me they will charge me as I am going over my 10GB monthly limit. Having suspected for a long time that my wireless is not secured and that my neighbour (an IT consultant) is using my broadband I called BT again to ask them to help me to secure my wireless. Having endured the 20minute wait, I finally spoke to someone who clearly did not speak english very well and just kept on insisting that the BT Home Hub comes fully secured and nobody other than me can use my wireless. Really really unhelpful.
Can anybody out there please tell me what I need to do? As you may have noticed I am not good at all this IT stuff and would appreciate some help.
I have a BT HomeHub 2.0 and installed it using the instructions. Nowhere in the instructions it said I needed to secure it and I could not find any useful information on the internet. Tried to call BT but gave up after 15min of waiting in the queue. Most of the time there are technical difficulties and I don´t get to use the internet very often at all.
Now (October 2010) I received an email from BT telling me they will charge me as I am going over my 10GB monthly limit. Having suspected for a long time that my wireless is not secured and that my neighbour (an IT consultant) is using my broadband I called BT again to ask them to help me to secure my wireless. Having endured the 20minute wait, I finally spoke to someone who clearly did not speak english very well and just kept on insisting that the BT Home Hub comes fully secured and nobody other than me can use my wireless. Really really unhelpful.
Can anybody out there please tell me what I need to do? As you may have noticed I am not good at all this IT stuff and would appreciate some help.
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To repeat my post from earlier in the thread....
I'll try to clarify this from a legal point of view for those that are interested.
The Theft Act 1968 states that it is an offence:- "To dishonestly Appropriate Property belong to another with the intent to permanently deprive them of it"
The police have what are called 'points to prove' before they can charge any person. They must prove all of the following:-
That the actions were DISHONEST
that APPROPRIATION took place (i.e. the alleged offender took on the rights of the rightful owner)
That the item constitutes PROPERTY
That the item BELONGED TO ANOTHER (not the alleged offender)
That there was INTENT TO PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE the rightful owner of the item.
If any one of those criteria is not met then in law there is no offence. There are numerous defences and that the police secure any convictions for theft is frankly a miracle.
Section 13 of the act covers 'non tangible goods' and covers the misuse, waste, unlawful use and divertion of electricity. Under that act anybody that uses a wireless network without permission of the owner does the following. They 'DISHONESTLY APPROPRIATE PROPERTY BELONGING TO ANOTHER WITH THE INTENT TO PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE THEM OF IT'. This is theft, pure and simple. They have not borrowed anything as they cannot return anything.
Anybody doing so are thieves. They are criminals!
The problem is that we all attach our own morality to things and if we don't think it is theft then it isn't! The problem is that we are wrong and it is theft.
I hope that has clarified things for you all.
I'll try to clarify this from a legal point of view for those that are interested.
The Theft Act 1968 states that it is an offence:- "To dishonestly Appropriate Property belong to another with the intent to permanently deprive them of it"
The police have what are called 'points to prove' before they can charge any person. They must prove all of the following:-
That the actions were DISHONEST
that APPROPRIATION took place (i.e. the alleged offender took on the rights of the rightful owner)
That the item constitutes PROPERTY
That the item BELONGED TO ANOTHER (not the alleged offender)
That there was INTENT TO PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE the rightful owner of the item.
If any one of those criteria is not met then in law there is no offence. There are numerous defences and that the police secure any convictions for theft is frankly a miracle.
Section 13 of the act covers 'non tangible goods' and covers the misuse, waste, unlawful use and divertion of electricity. Under that act anybody that uses a wireless network without permission of the owner does the following. They 'DISHONESTLY APPROPRIATE PROPERTY BELONGING TO ANOTHER WITH THE INTENT TO PERMANENTLY DEPRIVE THEM OF IT'. This is theft, pure and simple. They have not borrowed anything as they cannot return anything.
Anybody doing so are thieves. They are criminals!
The problem is that we all attach our own morality to things and if we don't think it is theft then it isn't! The problem is that we are wrong and it is theft.
I hope that has clarified things for you all.
+2
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If I had a penny for each of the useless advices I got from others on this website I would be a trillionaire.
Bah to MikeP.
Bah to MikeP.
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Bah Bah Black Ship - 31-Jan-10 01:23
Depending on what wireless management system you use, you should be able to set it not to connect to certain networks, and to default to your preferred.
Failing that, it wouldn't exactly be a Herculean task to go to those of your neighbours who might be within range, and suggest that they secure their network. You'd be doing them a favour.
Failing that, it wouldn't exactly be a Herculean task to go to those of your neighbours who might be within range, and suggest that they secure their network. You'd be doing them a favour.
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Far from stealing my neighbour's WIFI service my damnable neighbour has a BTFON wifi service which swamps my own. My PCs all connect automatically. They all try to connect first to this loud intrusive network and not my own I don't know which neighbour it is. I will straengle them with their network cable when I find out. This BTFON actually is a BT PAYG service. damnably expensive too. So I reckon really it's BT I should blame who has forced their network onto all of us in the street. Damn BT
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T are are the pirates of the - 30-Jan-10 10:25
One reason that people should secure their wifi connections is to prevent unauthorised access to sensitive data.
Many ISPs cap downloads, which means that if my neighbour decides to download large files using my connection, I end up paying for that if it goes above the cap.
It could also lead to a situation where, for example, my neighbour downloads or sends abusive or illegal material over the internet using my connection, and I end up under investigation or suspicion for this.
Seucring wifi is nothing to do with greed and unwillingness to share, it's common sense.
Many ISPs cap downloads, which means that if my neighbour decides to download large files using my connection, I end up paying for that if it goes above the cap.
It could also lead to a situation where, for example, my neighbour downloads or sends abusive or illegal material over the internet using my connection, and I end up under investigation or suspicion for this.
Seucring wifi is nothing to do with greed and unwillingness to share, it's common sense.
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Have you noticed how social systems evolve? They all begin wonderfully open, and beautifully anarchistically free. So it was with Wifi. A few years ago most households would not have bothered to close their systems off from use by others. They were sharing, open and free.
Over time systems become less free. There is a tendency towars the acceptance of controls. Controls lead to some having powers over others. The direction and arrow of time is towards fascism, towards corruption and loss of freedom.
Most households now completely close their wifi systems off from use by others. There is less willingness to share in this world. There is more selfish greed. The attitude is that this system is "mine" and stay out of "my" garden. The attitude is "no trespassing" and "no poaching", I do not want others using it.
I see in the future households putting up the equivalent of digitial man-traps to protect their systems from external invasion.
In March, 1825, a boy,aged nineteen, entered a garden owned by the squire near Bristol in pursuit of a straying peacock, and was badly injured in the leg by the discharge of a spring-gun.
Some years later, in May, 1827, an Act of the British Parliament rendered it illegal to set man-traps, spring-guns, and “other engines calculated to destroy human life or inflict grievous bodily harm,” except within a dwelling, and for the protection there of,between sunset and sunrise.
Will new laws protect us from others selfish greed?
Over time systems become less free. There is a tendency towars the acceptance of controls. Controls lead to some having powers over others. The direction and arrow of time is towards fascism, towards corruption and loss of freedom.
Most households now completely close their wifi systems off from use by others. There is less willingness to share in this world. There is more selfish greed. The attitude is that this system is "mine" and stay out of "my" garden. The attitude is "no trespassing" and "no poaching", I do not want others using it.
I see in the future households putting up the equivalent of digitial man-traps to protect their systems from external invasion.
In March, 1825, a boy,aged nineteen, entered a garden owned by the squire near Bristol in pursuit of a straying peacock, and was badly injured in the leg by the discharge of a spring-gun.
Some years later, in May, 1827, an Act of the British Parliament rendered it illegal to set man-traps, spring-guns, and “other engines calculated to destroy human life or inflict grievous bodily harm,” except within a dwelling, and for the protection there of,between sunset and sunrise.
Will new laws protect us from others selfish greed?
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Blah, Blah, Blah, "I disagree". You left your wireless open for the neighborhood to use it, that's your own fault!
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Fberry,
The piracy advert irritates me as well but mostly because I resent being made to sit through it every time I rent a DVD.
I am no apologist for big business but there is such as thing as intellectual property rights and if you copy a movie and sell it then you have deprived that company of its profit.
As others here have said you can also lose bandwidth and reach your download cap so the victim has had something stolen from them.
More to the point, is there a good reason why you think that some people should pay for their broadband and others should just get a free ride?
The piracy advert irritates me as well but mostly because I resent being made to sit through it every time I rent a DVD.
I am no apologist for big business but there is such as thing as intellectual property rights and if you copy a movie and sell it then you have deprived that company of its profit.
As others here have said you can also lose bandwidth and reach your download cap so the victim has had something stolen from them.
More to the point, is there a good reason why you think that some people should pay for their broadband and others should just get a free ride?
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Oh and to asnwer MikeP, the IP address of the system accessing the network is used not the network itself.
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I disagree Kit, this word thief is thrown about far too much... the one thing that gets me relly wound up is the movie piracy adverts....
You wouldn't steal a Purse
You wouldn't steal a Car
You wouldn't steal a Phone
You wouldn't steal a Movie
Then they bang on about piracy!!!
It's not the same, in these other examples the rightfu owner looses thier item...
When things are copied the original owner still owns their item, nothing was stolen!!!
As for Wi-Fi, it's the same thing. The owner looses nothing, there is no loss, there is nothing stolen.
You wouldn't steal a Purse
You wouldn't steal a Car
You wouldn't steal a Phone
You wouldn't steal a Movie
Then they bang on about piracy!!!
It's not the same, in these other examples the rightfu owner looses thier item...
When things are copied the original owner still owns their item, nothing was stolen!!!
As for Wi-Fi, it's the same thing. The owner looses nothing, there is no loss, there is nothing stolen.
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BT Retail Business Broadband Technical Support Advisor,
I use good security for my pc and have never had problems but I disagree with your position that I would have no right to complain if someone used my connection. If a person takes what is not theirs then they are a thief.
There is too much of the attitude these days that law breakers are in some way "tempted" into their crimes and are not responsible for their actions.
I use good security for my pc and have never had problems but I disagree with your position that I would have no right to complain if someone used my connection. If a person takes what is not theirs then they are a thief.
There is too much of the attitude these days that law breakers are in some way "tempted" into their crimes and are not responsible for their actions.
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