Are you a European or UK citizen?

The simple answer to the question of "...am I a UK or European citizen?" is that, as a UK citizen, I am both. Citizenship is a legal status, not a national identity. I, like most English men and women, have much more in common, ethnically and culturally, with most North Europeans than with a lot of my fellow UK citizens.

LionelB has expressed his opinion. That does not make him 'xenophobic', he doesn't want the UK to be a part of the EU and he doesn't want to cross the Channel. The latter may be narrow minded, but is certainly not xenophobic. I see nothing wrong in not wanting your country to be run by a bunch of bureaucrats in another country.

As for those of you who rant against Apartheid in South Africa, it was the Dutch/Afrikaaners (Hendrik Frensch Verwoerd) who made it law, but the British and others certainly had a hand in its inception.

"...... apartheid in South Africa would probably still be thriving now." Whilst apartheid itself was an untenable policy in many ways, the majority of the people of all races would be better off in many ways than they are under the present so-called government if the lunatic ANC had not taken over. Look to Zimbabwe and Libya for the most extreme and current proof that Africans (Libyans I accept are not really Africans) are unable to govern themselves. It cannot all be blamed on 'colonialism' so those of you who know nothing should rather not pronounce on the topic.

TK, "Have you forgotten what this country did to people in the colonial times or are you not aware of it at all??? "

Do you imagine that only the English were involved in the colonial period? There were many Scots, Irish and Welsh in the different colonies as business men, plantation managers, engineers, soldiers and in many other capacities.

It was the British Empire, not the English Empire. It was also in the past.

TK, why is your response to Lionel B so 'personal' in its attack. Your points about history are really quite irrelevant now, although if it weren't for England, then we would probably all be speaking German and apartheid in South Africa would probably still be thriving now. He does not sound like a 'bitter human being', merely someone who has a strong opinion on the matter. It irks me when the 'liberal wets', as I refer to them, have to resort to personal attacks when defending their usually ill-thought out, emotional viewpoints. You need to reflect upon your postings, and based them on raionale, rather than your 'feelings' about a person, etc.

Lionel B, whilst respecting your views, I must admit you come across as a rather xenophobic person ( to say the least ). Sad really. People are people and everywhere there is good and bad, but it is a fact that England in general ( there are many exceptions, of course ) seems to manage to irritate pretty much the whole world with the " superior attitude ". This country is not superior to anywhere else and I think that a lot of people in this country should look at themselves in the mirror ( and their actions and behaviour ) before bashing the rest of the world.

And yes, Scotts and Welsh are not the same country as England and do want to be independent. Why does England have to keep a foot in those countries? Are we on a power trip again??? How childish!

As to you being so allergic to the EU...well, that`s good, I`m sure nobody in the other EU countries would like meeting somebody saying the things you do! World War II??? Are you kidding me?? Have you forgotten what this country did to people in the colonial times or are you not aware of it at all??? And who created apartheid in South Africa??? I could elaborate on this and other things, but it`s not worth it. Living in the past is a very sad and ignorant way of living! You sound like a very bitter human being. I feel sorry for you! You really should visit other countries...I think you`d find people actually do have a heart, are warm and welcoming...all the things that you clearly do not seem to be. Hatred is a very bad trait to have and you must be a very unhappy human being carrying all that bitterness and hate inside you.

The United Kingdom is dead - as dead as my late Uncle who was gassed, twice, during WW1 when fighting those who now rule us.

I voted against joining the EU and there is absolutely now way I would cross the Channel to visit any EU country.


miserablemoaninggit 16-Oct-2010 12:10
I do not know anyone who wants independance from the UK. Not all Scots go along with that creep Salmond. He was voted in because so many voters did not vote. A dashed good reason for voting to be compulsory.

BigD, I thought my post was obviously "tongue in cheek" and was simply a response to the prior one by Charles Dickens. It simply makes the point that as an Englishman, my 'pride' can stop at that - at being English. It's not about superiority; I'm no more superior to the Scots, Welsh, Irish - or even the French for that matter. Of course, I disagree that English people have a 'constant, automatic and unconcious criticism of everybody else'; this seems a bit 'harsh' and I haven't even been aware that his is part of the English stereotype.

"englishidentity" you live up perfectly to the stereotype of the unselfconciously ignorant English man. The reason why people in the other home countries (Scotland\Northern Ireland\Wales) continue to have issues with English people is due to their misplaced sense of superiority combined with their constant, automatic and unconcious criticism of everybody else.

I am an Englishman and proud to be an Englishman. I have English friends who live in England and feel totally English. I am not a number or an inbred race. I am English and a Englishman and love the freedom to live anywhere in England, especially England.

I am an Englishman and proud to be European. Have British friends who live in France, Italy and Spain and feel totally European. I am not a number or an inbred race. I am British and a European and love the freedom to live anywhere in Europe including my own home country, Great Britain.

Wales can, you speak a lot of sense. It's a pity that a lot of your countrymen it seems do not share your views. Speaking as an Englishman, I'm tired and fed-up with the Scots and the Welsh, but especially the Scots. The sooner England breaks away from both countries in terms of its governance and identity, the better it will be.

I am welsh, and english, my father is english, my mother is welsh or half welsh, and I feel no animosity or hatred or disrespect to any englishman or scotsman, in fact I work with both englishmen and scotsmen and I have no problems with either of them.
We may disagree with each other about things, but the things that we hold in common, and that which unites us is bigger than any of us, and is more important than the things that we disagree about. But when the chips are well and truly down we watch each others backs, and put aside our differences. when it matters we are brothers in arms.

I am neither european, british, or english. I am a human being and one of billions of humans on this planet. we really need to start thinking globally if we are to stop all of the conflicts in the world by bringing people together. I am not patriotic in any way. infact I am one of the few people that view patriotism as a bad thing because I believe it leads to intolerance and segregation. whether you like it or not it is undeniable that one day we will have some form of world government. the EU is one stepping stone for that albiet not a very efficient one.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that during the mad cow epidemic our government could track a single cow, born in Bourne almost three years ago, right to the stall where she slept in the county of Lincolnshire?  And they even tracked her calves to their stalls.  But they are unable to locate 125,000 illegal immigrants wandering around our country.  Maybe we should give each of them a cow?

British and proud?, I would be all for an enhanced English identity but within the United Kingdom. But, tell that to the Scots and the Welsh! It seems that so many of them want to have independence from the UK. And, the hatred that I see and hear is more than just a bit of 'elbowing'; it is real racist hatred in my opinion. Anyway, what does any of it really matter now anyway? We've had such massive, unprecedented immigration (that is, such a huge number over a very short period of time) that English identity is being eroded from within, and this vast multi-cultural experiment will eventually lead to a much changed UK, for good or ill, who knows? My advice to the English is emigration!

I disagree with your comment about "he English are now insisting upon their own identity after many years of abuse and ridicule by the Welsh and the Scots". They are just more independent but should not be separate as they are part of the United Kingdom.
I am sure we all elbow one another, but that is expected sometimes. For god sake, they are not another country and nor is England. Bizaar that men in particular want to isolate others, almost in a territorial way.

British and proud?, the English are now insisting upon their own identity after many years of abuse and ridicule by the Welsh and the Scots, and the fact that Wales now has its own Senate and Scotland has its own Parliament. It is not surprising whatsoever that the English now are reacting toward the desire of Wales and Scotland to seperate itself off by actually now wanting to accomodate them. Speaking as an Englishman, I find it deplorable that the Welsh - and Scots in particularly - can go on national TV and Radio, and essentially make racist comments against the English, even to the point of seeing real hatred on their faces. Let them go it alone and let us have our own English Parliament. Of course, this will mean that English taxes are spent on English people, rather than heavily subsidising Wales and Scotland, as we are currently doing.

further to my comment.... I am referring to Airports authorities and how the system works. Why should they separate people by colour and area and not the country as a whole?

"English" why are the English becoming like the Welsh and insisting on a identity rather than the UK as a whole. Why do some want to split hairs and split people to do point of ridiculousness?
Next we will be separated and divided by 'English men'. English women', English child' English pet'! Northern English and Southern English.
When do you stop dividing our country up?
Airport authorities see only United Kingdome but of course some do not want to be 'uinited'.

Our braindead country refused to join the schengen visa system which is why we are cattled at the airports. Everyone else in Europe can travel everywhere between countries with no checks.