Snow and ice brings out the worst drivers

My insurance company wanted an extra £150 if I put snow tyres on due to it being classed as a modification. Figure that one

'Digsy' seems to believe that simply because a problem does not exist at the moment then a debate which is currently discussing such subjects as driver training, equipment and techniques for use on snow and ice is unnecessary.

Curious logic, one must say.

Congo, the snow and ice problems ended more than two weeks ago, there really is no point in going on and on about it any more.

I think the best advice I can give to anyone who drives in the winter, is to assume that none of the roads have been gritted. Even after salt has been put on the road, it can be a few hours before it takes real effect and at temperatures below -6c, it has far less effect - it really isn't a magic potion that works instantly. Another thing for winter novices to remember, is that if a road has well below zero for days, even if the air temperature rises to above freezing, that road will still be frozen for another few days. If you take an ice cube out of the freezer and leave it in a cool room, it doesn't just disappear instantly, it might take all day to melt. I've come across many an accident where the driver has said that the car thermometer has read +4 or more and spun the car on an icy stretch. Maybe it's time that U.K. drivers were forced to have their cars prepared for winter as in some countries in Europe. It wouldn't stop the idiots from having accidents, but it might help the more cautious. When I lived in the country, I didn't mind driving on snowy roads because I knew that almost everyone could drive well in those conditions, but now I live in the city, going out in the winter scares the hell out of me because I see so much very dangerous driving, with driver relying on ABS, traction control, thermometers etc and not common sense and experience. Every winter I carry a shovel, sleeping bag, torch, a bag of salt/grit mix and a few bits of old blankets to put under the wheels if I have to. I just wish that I could get some decent snow/mud tryes that were the correct speed rating for my car, but my local tyre place say that it's not possible - I'm sure they're wrong.

Weston Babe

Good advice indeed and one couldn't agree more with your comments concerning the inadequacies of some drivers of four wheel drive vehicles. Traction with all wheels driven may indeed be better however braking performance, especially of the largerlarge Land Rover type vehicles on ice is an entirely different matter.

It has to be said that females in general are incapable of driving with finesse although Congo will admit there are exceptions.

Snow seems to bring out the worst traits in all types of drivers. The speedo morons keep pumping their gas pedals; usually you end up catching them up 5 miles down the road, car sitting on its roof, bandages applied to their big fat bufoon heads as they stumble into the back of an ambulance. Then you get the ultra cautious "people carrier" brigade who want to take an hour to drive each mile; they probably dream of the day when all cars will be wrapped in cotton wool, speed limited to 15 mph and run on carrot juice.

Hello Congo, I know exactly what you're talking about, but I was trying to simplify things for those who have little or no experience of snow/ice driving. Despite the daft name (not chosen by me), I'm a bloke who lived and worked in rural North-East England for over 40 years and had to drive on snowy roads every winter. As you know, drivers must be able to have a "feel" for the car and the road, don't brake unless you plan to stop, "feather" the throttle, get to know by sight and feel what is icy and what isn't, keep your distance, think well ahead and don't panic. All I was trying to say was that big powerful 4x4's are not necessarily better than a good front wheel drive diesel with loads of low end torque and winter tyres. I have diesel Skoda and never have any bother driving around the city where I now live - I leave the drive and set off on tickover until I'm moving. The woman nearby, with her Landrover Discovery, sits spinning the wheels and sliding everywhere. I was talking to her one day, and she didn't even know what diff-locks were. Incidentally, my best car for snow was a little Toyota Tercel 4x4 with narrowish tyres, good clearance and you could lock all 3 diffs (no silly limited-slip diffs then) - absolutely brilliant, but would ahve been better with a diesel engine. I saw lots of them in Greenland this year.

dk - I have no idea why you suddenly brought up the subject of the partially sighted on a thread about driving but why shouldn't the visually impaired go out when it is snowing? This weather might last for weeks. Do you think the paritally sighted don't have to get to work or visit friends or go shopping for food like everyone else?

Weston Baba

There is a pedal on the right hand side of the footwell, known as an accelerator or 'gas pedal'.

Light pressure would enable you to drive more easily in snow and ice. Pushing it to the floor will not.

Hope this helps.

In the current snowy weather, people are tramping wet and melting snow into shops and public buildings, the response is usually a "Caution Wet Floor" sign.But frankly, what is the point? The floor is still wet, that is rarely addressed, yet the sign is just an attempt to avoid any liability if someone slips and falls. To my mind it's an inadequate response, for example what if the customer is partially sighted, but follows the letter of Health & Safety regulations.

If you buy the right tyres, such as winter or mud and slush tyres, you'll get pretty well anywhere in most cars. Of course diesel cars are better than petrol ones, having a greater torque at lower revs. I once had a company Land Rover and it had road tyres that would get 70,000 miles of use, but they had absolutely no grip in snow or ice, yet I drove a little Peugeot 205 diesel with all-weather tyres on and it would go almost anywhere except in deep snow. A few years later I drove an Audi 90 quattro and it was totally useless in the snow - it would slide from side to side - too much power and wrong tyres. A freind had a Porsche Carrera 4 and after his first trip out in light snow he refused to drive it in snow and drove his wife's fiesta instead - far too much power and far too wide tyres of the wrong type.

The first snow of winter. Time to close the Schools!

How is it that as soon as we get even the smallest fall of snow, hundreds of schools seem to close. It's not as if teachers dont get enough time off as it is. Everybody else seems to manage to get to work. The Police, Fire and Health services manage. The shops still open, transport still runs, the post still arrives.

I'm getting fed up of seeing teachers being interviewed on the news, trying to justify closing their schools whilst standing in less than an inch of snow. Ironically they seem to be able to get to school for the TV cameras.

As teachers they have a duty of care for the children. Everyone else makes the effort. Every day missed should be added to the end of term. In the words of my old teacher "Must try harder." Much harder.

I would like to know why councils never clear the ice at bus stops. Stepping off buses onto pavements that are like sheets of glass is very dangerous.

Once you have to let go of the rail on the bus, there is nothing to hold onto and sometimes you are stepping down about a foot. A friend of mine , young and very fit, broke her wrist after falling on ice getting off of a bus last winter.

It is even more of a problem for anyone who is old or visually impaired.

We've been enjoying the annual farce of (not much) snow on the roads. Why is it that as soon as two or three snowflakes are gathered together, our friends in the meedger lose what little sense they had? Dire warnings on local radio about traffic chaos and hardship have been a little hard to take when one can look out of the window and see that while the lawn may have half-an-inch of snow on it, the road is clear and wet, not slippery at all, and that traffic is flowing normally. And our friends in the police! Naturally enough we've all become inured to the warnings "stay at home unless your journey is really necessary" and largely ignore them. In any case, do they think we all spend our time joyriding round the country just for the fun of it? And when did you last hear a police spokesman saying "Yes, the roads were a bit slippery but drivers realised this and drove accordingly"?

People simply do not know stopping distances! I drive a tiny Smart - I had no trouble in the ice and snow if I was careful. Unfortunately, many drivers did not like the way I drove and often overtook far too fast - most of them losing some control, one actually mounted the opposite kerb in his haste to overtake at speed on two inches of solid ice! Morons. I will NOT speed up because YOU are in a hurry to die.

Driving in snow just underlines the lack of ability many drivers have.I have a particular hate of the way most drivers position themselves too close to the car in front in good weather.In snowy conditions it doesn't improve.I remember last year during the heavy snow watching a T.V.news presenter showing the conditions in somewhere in Yorkshire .She was standing by a road covered in snow and the camera panned round to show the complete absence of traffic except for two vehicles which crept past her,one a Passat the other a Range Rover and guess what.They were separated by a vehicle length despite the front vehicle obviously sliding.Now my instinct in normal weather is to keep as far as possible behind the car in front so this seemed madness.In those conditions I would have allowed about 100 yards separation after all you can't go faster by being closer

@Hawk I 20

"I believe in the old saying " A poor workman always blames his tools"."

If that workman doesn't have the correct tools for his job then he can't do the job properly. Pure and simple!!

I agree with motorist that the tyres make a huge difference. I live in Germany where by law you have to change tyres in the winter season. I am shocked that British motorists don't cause they think it's only for the snow it's not!! it's for the temperature drop in winter months! Winter or all weather tyres have to be used in winter months by law here in Germany and our roads aren't cleared at much as yours are and you hardly see people get stuck as you do. Winter tyres aren't just for the snow it's for when the temperature drops the summer tyres have harden and don't grip to the roads so well.

Also I think its very ignorant to say that "because unless the snow is too deep, or the road surface is for icey for tyres to cope with, there should be no excuse for getting stuck in less than 3 inches of snow (most tyres can cope with that depth easily)."
YOUR WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So inconclusion using the right tools for the job such as tyres here means the job is done right! THank you for reading :)

And can you believe Halfords will sell you, and fit a dashboard mounted DVD player with screen so you can watch DVD's whilst driving, and this country lets them.

But colnel bogey airhorns are illegal.

Here is a radical thought for you Wreck O' Mend, why not stop making cars with all the luxury items that modern drivers demand, and revert to basic interiors without these gadgets and perhaps drivers would not have these distractions to take their minds off what they should be doing - Driving! How many accidents have been caused by people changing their CDs or Cassette tapes(in older cars for those who do not remember them :-) LOL)
Perhaps removing modern technology and reverting back to Non- power assisted steering, and "Crash" gearboxes would help weed out the bad drivers, because more skill would be required to drive these vehicles.
Just a thought?

4x4's are not the problem, it is the drivers of these vehicles (like any other vehicle) who are the problems with their attitude thinking that luxuries and gadgets make them better drivers.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link so an incompetent driver is no better in a 4x4 than a good driver in a normal vehicle but worse.

Drivers can only benefit properly from the vehicle they drive if they have the necessary skills and competencies for the vehicle.

Sadly there are some drivers in all category of vehicle who are a nuisance on the road because they think their vehicle is a reflection of their driving standards.