Schools too soft on disruptive pupils

I used to teach in a futher ed college. Too many students were unsuitable, on the wrong course (but enrolled anyway to make up numbers), disruptive, rude etc but were tolerated to meet various 'targets'. I saw several good students quit because they were getting very little from the system wheras the majority of the EMA collecting timewasters were tolerated and 'helped' through assignments (many times) so that they could pass the course (another tick in the box). Senior managers - strangely never seen!

The comments you've made really hit home with the secondary school I work in. I have had a career change from a store manager going into the world of teaching. To gain experience I am currently employed as a T.A at my old high school. From the time I was taught there in comparison to how it is today I was appalled to see the nasty attitude students dish out to teaching staff. The dicipline is completely lost, teachers are constantly verbally abused, ignored and disrespected. The students I work with have extremely poor behaviour problems, yet the approach I hold is very firm but friendly, for which I do get respected. But nowadays even the school dont believe these 'special' students should be spoken to in a firm way but a 'softly' approach which is just ridiculous. I sympathise with the teachers and support them whenever I can with bad behaviour but its just not enough. It really does make me doubt carrying on with this career but I do feel it is a challenge I would want to tackle head on. I do feel a change needs to be made, this kind of poor treatment to staff is just inexcusable.

I see kids make fun of kids who are in special ed/needs calling them retards, thats disespectful, How would they like it if someday they have kids themselves who are diffrent from other kids and there made fun of. kids today are meaner than when I was growing up. with cell phones and websites.these kids use those tools to create hate pages.

I keep seeing disruptive children get away with murder! smashing property,books,and you get is there,there,there,! ( I won t say where I work but believe me ,you & me decent people are paying for this in council tax) When will this culture of rude ,lazy,disruptive,little kids end.you tell me...

I read this and I couldn't agree more. I have recently been accused of bullying a pupil by the boy and his father simply because I was trying to getvhis gcse coursework out of as he continually missed deadlines. I have had no support from my school. It seems everyone is scared by abusive parents and lazy rude pupils

I think its awful how schools nowadays don't seem to actually be allowed to discipline rowdy children. I am currently at university but back when I was at secondary school, I was always in the top set, the high achievers, my group of friends were always the ones that came up top in exams, won prizes at prize giving.

Even though we were the ones that were high achieving, it was the disruptive pupils that were actually more advantageous. If they behaved for a few moments, they would be praised. We shouldnt be praising them for behaving - it should be what is already expected!

Even when we had children who had stolen from teachers- those pupils were expelled for a few weeks then brought back so that the school had a 0% expulsion rate- making it look better.

What I hated most were the mixed classes. When we had lessons that were not in sets. The teachers tended to go at a slower pace so that everyone could catch up, which meant a lot of time was wasted and most of the time the rest of us weren't taught because the teacher had to spend so much time telling off those kids. Only 1 of my mixed classes I enjoyed because the teacher did not go at a slow pace. Teacher tend to think that they need to go really slow when the pupils are actually being disruptive because they are bored, not because the syllabus is too hard.

My cousin is 3 years younger than me and lives in Hong Kong. When I was only just introduced to algebra in year 7. She had already studied it for a year in junior school. Even the high school delinquents in hong kong are actually better equipped/more intelligent than some of the college students here.

I am trained as a secondary school teacher and have had many breaks in teaching to do voluntary work and meditation (which would be of vast benefit if taught in schools as a way of calming minds and emotions which are bombarded by excessive TV watching, adverts, computers, music etc). Recently I returned to supply teaching .
On Wednesday I was given a year 4 class in Bolton who could not concentrate for more than 5 seconds - I repeatedly asked for quiet and was repeatedly ignored - the manners I witnessed were appalling - no-one came to help and frankly I had my hands so full that I would not have had a moment to ask! And yet I found work and messages from previous cover teachers of this class saying how it had been impossible to teach them.
All I could do was keep a few of them in at break, lunchtime and for 5 minutes after school.
At the end of the day the few I kept in I told them how they had made it impossible for me to teach, how rude they were in their behaviour and also how selfish they were being. I then proceeded to go home. At this point, I was accosted - in my car by an angry parent who banged on the window shouting abuse. She said I had made her daughter cry - I said I had simply reprimanded her for her behaviour. The woman continued with her abuse and obviously complained to the headteacher about me , who complained to the supply teaching agency (fortunately the agent had often told me I had very good feedback from schools previously - .)
Unfortunately the agencies are not really interested in anything but their profit and as such seemed more annoyed that the school may no longer want to use the agency because of this incident!
Such actions give at best confused messages to the child and at worst creates monsters - ie I can do what I want and if I cry or make a fuss then I am right and the teacher is not respected etc.......
I no longer want to be part of the education system

I have noticed over the years how dumbed down University seems to have become. I work with graduates and to be quite frank, they are pretty thick, whatever they learnt at Uni obviously hasnt sunk in. Do you think the dumbing down is so we can keep up with countries like S Korea? When will it be a requirement to have a degree to fill a supermarket shelf? I suppose the lack of discipline in schools means we have to find some way of making our kids 'appear' intelligent.

Letting off steam, you are so right. It amazes me that most people seem too thick to notice the correlation between the rise in poor behaviour and the decline in the use of corporal punishment!

Helga, you have put forward a very good possible solution. I was lucky enough to have the benefit of a grammar school education. It's high time we went back to a streamed system so that the intelligent pupils are not held back by the ones who are less intelligent or just don't want to learn. The less intelligent ones who want to learn should be separated from the disruptive ones as well, then everyone would be better off.

Helga-yes, I agree. It's pointlesss holding back all the teachable students for the wild bunch. If they were separated, with the opportunity to win back a place with the teachables through good behavior then their damage could be limited. Teachers have no power and get no respect from these disruptive students. Anyone bullied out of another job the way teachers are would be compensated with tens of thousands of pounds.

Students should graded on their disruptiveness. The least disruptive should have the opportunity to study together. The most disruptive should also study together, in an environment created to minimize the effects of their behavior. It should also be a monitored environment where all activity is recorded, to protect the teachers. Disruptive students should not be permitted to influence and ruin the chances of the ones who want to succeed.

You are absolutely right. I work as a supply teacher, and as such, I expect to take the brunt of a school's ill behaviour, but it's getting beyond a joke.
The problem as I see it is that all the consequences of bad behaviour have been taken away. Nothing bad happens to kids who cross the line. In fact, kids who cross the line on a regular basis are treated to a personal teaching assistant and special consideration. Then we diagnose them with a made up medical condition which absolves them, and their parents, of all responsibility.
Don't get me wrong. I am well aware that some children have genuine learning difficulties, I just find it hard to believe that instances of these conditions have mushroomed over the last few years in areas of high density housing.
The real shame of it is that the kids who actually want to do well are hindered immeasurably by the ones who want to spend all day disrupting the rest of the class.
As for the solution, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Let there be a consequence for disruptive behaviour. Let's pull those children out of the mainstream and put them somewhere else until they are ready to make the effort. If they are not prepared to do that, then so be it. They will still be able to do the low paid grunt work that they were probably destined for anyway, without dragging everybody else down with them.
It's time to toughen up.
Everybody deserves a chance at a decent education, but the moment that we make it impossible for an individual to blow that chance, then we are on a very slippery slope.